for the seaint list's greatest hits.
- jrw
Quoting Harold Sprague <spraguehope@hotmail.com>:
>
> The issue of blistering of floor surface finishes on slabs on grade
> is a serviceability issue. And there are specific requirements
> contained in the building codes. Moisture ingress can cause mold
> and air quality issues and should not be ignored. A search on the
> WBDG on NIBS web site will provide very good guidance. Many floor
> finishes are sensitive to moisture vapor ingress through slabs on
> grade. I would opt for using a vapor barrier in most situations
> because it does not cost that much to install and there will
> probably be changes of use in the future. I would rather have it
> and not need it than need it and not have it.
>
> ....Back to your initial question. The current IBC-09 requires
> foundation drains as cited in section 1805. IBC-03, and 06 had it
> in section 1807. IBC-00 had it in 1806. BOCA 96 had it in section
> 1813. UBC had some stuff stuck back in the appendix where no one
> looked. Some measure of moisture control has been around a long,
> long time.
>
> 2009 IBC Section:
>
> SECTION 1805
> DAMPPROOFING AND WATERPROOFING
> 1805.1 General. Walls or portions thereof that retain earth and
> enclose interior spaces and floors below grade shall be waterproofed
> and dampproofed in accordance with this section, with the exception
> of those spaces containing groups other than residential and
> institutional where such omission is not detrimental to the building
> or occupancy.
>
> Section 1805.4 gets into "foundation drains". So if your floor is
> below grade, there is no IBC wiggle room. If the floor is at or
> above grade, you have a lot of wiggle room. This section is a
> pretty heavy duty hammer contained in the IBC. Since we structural
> engineers show the slabs-on-grade, we had better show what is
> written in the the IBC.
>
> By the way, in the legal world this e-mail is "discoverable".
> Things I have posted on this forum have been presented in real
> cases. If you have an issue and want to stay under the legal eagle
> radar, be careful about what goes out on open forums.
>
> Regards, Harold Sprague
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 21:31:43 -0500
> Subject: Re: Foundation drains
> From: kbofoz@gmail.com
> To: seaint@seaint.org
>
> It appears that no-one knows about such a requirement, but I would
> really appreciate even negative replies if you can please.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Kevin Below <kbofoz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joe and Paul, are you aware of any US code requirement for a
> perimeter foundation drain ? How about Vish in India ?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Joe Venuti <jovenengr@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Vapor barriers are required in habitable space only.
>
>
> Joe Venuti, P.E.
> Joven Engineering
> La Quinta, CA
> jovenengr@verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> From: Kevin Below [mailto:kbofoz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:51 AM
> To: seaint@seaint.org
> Subject: Re: Foundation drains
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Paul,
> Actually one of the renowned experts in the field, Peter Craig,
> agrees with that. He says that it doesn't matter if the water table
> is 10 feet or 510 feet deep, once the slab is covered with a
> low-permeance flooring material, moisture beneath the slab will
> increase over time and most often reach close to 100% relative
> humidity.
>
> Do you know if there is any requirement in the US codes?
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:30 AM, ad026 rpransom <ad026@rpransom.ca> wrote:
> Kevin
> over my career I have waffled back and forth on the need for foundation
> drains at the footing for any particular circumstance (e.g. basement or not,
> foundation below frost line or not). If there is a below grade story
> (basement) it is essential. I think that it is always a good practice if for
> no other reason than to mitigate deterioration of the foundation materials
> (e.g. concrete and rebar, wood, ICF). However, there has to be someplace to
> dispose the drain water (e.g. municipal storm drain, cistern, sump).
>
> Vapour pressure will always exist above the water table, regardless of
> whether that is 1' or 5' feet below the slab ... make sure the vapour
> retarder is there.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> --
> Paul Ransom, P.Eng.
> ad026@RPRansom.ca
>
>
>
>> Are there any building officials on the list now, someone like Scott Hahn,
>> who knows very well the US codes ?
>> I am trying to find out if there are any provisions in US codes, or Indian,
>> English or other codes also, that make a foundation drain obligatory.
>>
>> There is such a provision in the Canadian National Building Code, Part 3,
>> Moisture and Thermal Protection, and I am trying to determine if it is a
>> logical requirement or just something that developed in a country that
>> almost always uses basements.
>>
>> Some "experts" have determined that the lack of a foundation drain may be a
>> contributing factor in a vapor transmission problem through a SOG that is
>> causing floor finishes to blister. The real experts who have published
>> research on the subject all point to the missing vapor barrier, but you know
>> what lawyers can do with the truth.
>>
>> Any help and information on any country's codes would be appreciated.
>
>
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